cattive notizie da una delle ditte che più am(av?)o 
sembra che la db skis (per chi non lo sapesse, la microditta fondata da uno svizzero e uno yank che produce(v?)a i mitici surreals e tabla rasa in puro carbonio a soli :wink: 880 $ sia veramente in cattive acque.... in pratica nessuno degli ordini già ricevuti in autunno per i nuovi sci sembra sia stato evaso, e questa è la spiegazine ufficiale di staphan arrivata questa mattina su TGR....
Stephan here from db.
I'll try to address the questions and concerns that have been brought up thus far in thus thread. If I miss anything, let me know, and I will try to come on and post again in the near future.
Well, as you know this year hasn't exactly gone as planned, and has generated some pretty deep frustration through the whole db community- from those who ordered skis, to those who physically build, design, and sell them as a way to make a living.
Probably as much as anyone, I live and breathe this year's disappointment every waking moment of the day and into the night (saying this season is as much of a literal 'nightmare' as it is a figurative one), but underneath the grit, stress, hair loss, and disappointment with the present is an optimism for the future, because I really believe in the skis we are building and know that despite their current lack of numbers, that they are something truly unique, special, and that it's worth fighting for the day when they do get built in quantities that will allow us to fulfill an order within a couple days of it being placed.
-In the fall, we thought there would have been skis, so we took orders with a full payment as a deposit, anticipating that skis would be delivered within a reasonable amount of time. That hasn't happened (see below for answers), and it has really hurt everyone in obvious ways. I now wish we could have just taken a reservation without cash as we are currently doing. It goes without saying that when someone is holding your money in his or her bank and not yours, you are more stressed about the delivery of the thing you ordered. So, in lieu of the current delays, I am advising anyone who has a ski on order, but feels anxiety about its delivery, or whether we are in business or not, to opt for a full refund of their purchase. While I totally understand and encourage those who want or need a refund to get one, we decided not to issue a blanket refund for the season because 1) skis are in fact trickling in and are being delivered, albeit slowly, and 2) there are folks who have orders in who have expressed interest in sticking it out for the long haul.
What happened, where were the problems? China? Michigan? Ogden?
- There were issues in the fall with lay-up and mold discrepancies. This last summer we cut all new molds- essentially completely new and revamped skis from the ones we build last year. That meant retooling everything, 9 molds, and all the accompanying craziness. Within each of those tools, is a lay-up for 2 different flexes, and we introduced a completely new molding cycle to our skis, which is totally unique and idiosyncratic to building carbon/Kevlar skis. I am sure Splat can attest to the immense complications and time involved in building one size/one shape/and 2 flexes on the bros. Anyway, factor that by 9 and add some really difficult materials into the stew and it turns into a potential Pandora?s box. No excuses though. The whole process was late, and the planning wasn't there for problems, many of which popped up in the early phases. Those bugs set us back around 4 months and are the reason why we are where we are. There's really not much more to it, besides the litany of engineering details--- no juicy financial issues, business deals or lawsuits to speak of, just problems in getting a new process dialed in, and unfortunately the repercussions of those early setbacks toasted the season in terms of output.
-Last year all skis were built in Michigan. Michigan is a relatively small facility and could not handle the quantities of skis we wanted to build there. A portion of skis and all molds are currently still being built there for the time being.
-Dave Goode, who is a partner and investor in db skis, wanted to move the operation to the mountains, which is great for db R&D. He chose Ogden UT. The Michigan facility is in the process of moving to Ogden. The move won't be fully complete until May or June of this year. Michigan will shut down completely thereafter. I will be hanging out in Ogden quite a bit next year. Ogden will employ approximately the same amount of people as Michigan did. Dave has been making ski poles in China for a number of years. He has decided to build the core of all skis, both GOODE and db in China, while doing all finishing work and tooling stateside. While currently the GOODE production and commitment to db is spread between Michigan, Ogden, and China, by this summer it will be split between China and Ogden, UT. On the China front, there have been some issues in terms of lack of electrical power running all presses, but these are minor in relation to the production problems mentioned above. In regard to all decisions pertaining to geography and production, db is at the whim of the GOODE organization.
-There are certain realities that come into play in those decisions regarding materials and build processes. When I talk to engineers and ski designers at other companies, they are often shocked and laugh at the materials we are building with from a financial standpoint. The whole ski consists of the highest grade aerospace composites made which cost a ridiculous amount in relation to any other ski built; the time investment in production is equally crazy. The margins are low no matter where you build them, and it's literally an impossible business in some places. It's a labor of love and a commitment to performance, and that's why we are hanging on, and trying to fulfill the orders that remain on the table for this year, and looking optimistically toward the spring when there are skis ready to ship out, and we can make this thing run the way it was designed to.
-It would be something to start over with another facility and not be beholden to a production partner (Of course, we are always open to listening to ideas and looking at other options) However, the belief I have in the sheer performance and design of the skis we are building, and the culture and community around them -e.g. thread like this one- continues to be a strong motivator to hold on. Every time I feel them under my feet, I know that we are up to a good thing, and that these skis mean something really special in our little corner of the ski world, and that we are going to keep working hard and dreaming to make their appearance in numbers a reality.
-The production guys are reticent to give any date projections on skis currently on order, having been wrong so many times this year so far, so we find out what comes in when it comes, unfortunately.
-Misc things: next years skis will be exactly the same as this years, not so much because we don't have time to design again, but because the ones that are starting to come out are amazing boards and we are really happy with them for now. This spring and summer, we hope to play with some experimental shapes that won't replace anything current but may broaden the existing quiver. We are currently working to increase production capacity by 6x for this spring/summer to climb out of the hole.
I hope this post helped to clarify and explain some of the issues and production history of this ill-fated 04/05-production season.
I can't really express how sorry I am to everyone who put an order and in and is still waiting. It pains me every time I think about it, which is often and almost always. I wish we could do something more right away.
If you are on the refund route and need boards right away, I have heard a lot of good things about the sticks made by the good BROS in this neck of the woods.
For those looking to get on the reservation list for when we get our act together, you can email administration@dbskis.com with the size/shape/flex you are looking for.
Otherwise, I am off to bed to dream of skis flying out of the presses and into the shrink wrap.--- I need to ski more too, and hopefully will soon.
Thinking db would be in a totally different place at this point this year, four of us planned a march/April road trip from Colorado to AK, using 4-stroke sleds to access terrain and tours along the way (a trip we dreamed about and planned for years).
In any case, Philip and Roman will be the direct email contacts for NA questions and logistics over the next couple of months, and I will be in contact with them and GOODE virtually daily by phone, so if you have more questions, send them on over, and we will do our best to answer.
Again- apologetically,
Stephan
__________________
www.dbskis.com
sembra che la db skis (per chi non lo sapesse, la microditta fondata da uno svizzero e uno yank che produce(v?)a i mitici surreals e tabla rasa in puro carbonio a soli :wink: 880 $ sia veramente in cattive acque.... in pratica nessuno degli ordini già ricevuti in autunno per i nuovi sci sembra sia stato evaso, e questa è la spiegazine ufficiale di staphan arrivata questa mattina su TGR....
Stephan here from db.
I'll try to address the questions and concerns that have been brought up thus far in thus thread. If I miss anything, let me know, and I will try to come on and post again in the near future.
Well, as you know this year hasn't exactly gone as planned, and has generated some pretty deep frustration through the whole db community- from those who ordered skis, to those who physically build, design, and sell them as a way to make a living.
Probably as much as anyone, I live and breathe this year's disappointment every waking moment of the day and into the night (saying this season is as much of a literal 'nightmare' as it is a figurative one), but underneath the grit, stress, hair loss, and disappointment with the present is an optimism for the future, because I really believe in the skis we are building and know that despite their current lack of numbers, that they are something truly unique, special, and that it's worth fighting for the day when they do get built in quantities that will allow us to fulfill an order within a couple days of it being placed.
-In the fall, we thought there would have been skis, so we took orders with a full payment as a deposit, anticipating that skis would be delivered within a reasonable amount of time. That hasn't happened (see below for answers), and it has really hurt everyone in obvious ways. I now wish we could have just taken a reservation without cash as we are currently doing. It goes without saying that when someone is holding your money in his or her bank and not yours, you are more stressed about the delivery of the thing you ordered. So, in lieu of the current delays, I am advising anyone who has a ski on order, but feels anxiety about its delivery, or whether we are in business or not, to opt for a full refund of their purchase. While I totally understand and encourage those who want or need a refund to get one, we decided not to issue a blanket refund for the season because 1) skis are in fact trickling in and are being delivered, albeit slowly, and 2) there are folks who have orders in who have expressed interest in sticking it out for the long haul.
What happened, where were the problems? China? Michigan? Ogden?
- There were issues in the fall with lay-up and mold discrepancies. This last summer we cut all new molds- essentially completely new and revamped skis from the ones we build last year. That meant retooling everything, 9 molds, and all the accompanying craziness. Within each of those tools, is a lay-up for 2 different flexes, and we introduced a completely new molding cycle to our skis, which is totally unique and idiosyncratic to building carbon/Kevlar skis. I am sure Splat can attest to the immense complications and time involved in building one size/one shape/and 2 flexes on the bros. Anyway, factor that by 9 and add some really difficult materials into the stew and it turns into a potential Pandora?s box. No excuses though. The whole process was late, and the planning wasn't there for problems, many of which popped up in the early phases. Those bugs set us back around 4 months and are the reason why we are where we are. There's really not much more to it, besides the litany of engineering details--- no juicy financial issues, business deals or lawsuits to speak of, just problems in getting a new process dialed in, and unfortunately the repercussions of those early setbacks toasted the season in terms of output.
-Last year all skis were built in Michigan. Michigan is a relatively small facility and could not handle the quantities of skis we wanted to build there. A portion of skis and all molds are currently still being built there for the time being.
-Dave Goode, who is a partner and investor in db skis, wanted to move the operation to the mountains, which is great for db R&D. He chose Ogden UT. The Michigan facility is in the process of moving to Ogden. The move won't be fully complete until May or June of this year. Michigan will shut down completely thereafter. I will be hanging out in Ogden quite a bit next year. Ogden will employ approximately the same amount of people as Michigan did. Dave has been making ski poles in China for a number of years. He has decided to build the core of all skis, both GOODE and db in China, while doing all finishing work and tooling stateside. While currently the GOODE production and commitment to db is spread between Michigan, Ogden, and China, by this summer it will be split between China and Ogden, UT. On the China front, there have been some issues in terms of lack of electrical power running all presses, but these are minor in relation to the production problems mentioned above. In regard to all decisions pertaining to geography and production, db is at the whim of the GOODE organization.
-There are certain realities that come into play in those decisions regarding materials and build processes. When I talk to engineers and ski designers at other companies, they are often shocked and laugh at the materials we are building with from a financial standpoint. The whole ski consists of the highest grade aerospace composites made which cost a ridiculous amount in relation to any other ski built; the time investment in production is equally crazy. The margins are low no matter where you build them, and it's literally an impossible business in some places. It's a labor of love and a commitment to performance, and that's why we are hanging on, and trying to fulfill the orders that remain on the table for this year, and looking optimistically toward the spring when there are skis ready to ship out, and we can make this thing run the way it was designed to.
-It would be something to start over with another facility and not be beholden to a production partner (Of course, we are always open to listening to ideas and looking at other options) However, the belief I have in the sheer performance and design of the skis we are building, and the culture and community around them -e.g. thread like this one- continues to be a strong motivator to hold on. Every time I feel them under my feet, I know that we are up to a good thing, and that these skis mean something really special in our little corner of the ski world, and that we are going to keep working hard and dreaming to make their appearance in numbers a reality.
-The production guys are reticent to give any date projections on skis currently on order, having been wrong so many times this year so far, so we find out what comes in when it comes, unfortunately.
-Misc things: next years skis will be exactly the same as this years, not so much because we don't have time to design again, but because the ones that are starting to come out are amazing boards and we are really happy with them for now. This spring and summer, we hope to play with some experimental shapes that won't replace anything current but may broaden the existing quiver. We are currently working to increase production capacity by 6x for this spring/summer to climb out of the hole.
I hope this post helped to clarify and explain some of the issues and production history of this ill-fated 04/05-production season.
I can't really express how sorry I am to everyone who put an order and in and is still waiting. It pains me every time I think about it, which is often and almost always. I wish we could do something more right away.
If you are on the refund route and need boards right away, I have heard a lot of good things about the sticks made by the good BROS in this neck of the woods.
For those looking to get on the reservation list for when we get our act together, you can email administration@dbskis.com with the size/shape/flex you are looking for.
Otherwise, I am off to bed to dream of skis flying out of the presses and into the shrink wrap.--- I need to ski more too, and hopefully will soon.
Thinking db would be in a totally different place at this point this year, four of us planned a march/April road trip from Colorado to AK, using 4-stroke sleds to access terrain and tours along the way (a trip we dreamed about and planned for years).
In any case, Philip and Roman will be the direct email contacts for NA questions and logistics over the next couple of months, and I will be in contact with them and GOODE virtually daily by phone, so if you have more questions, send them on over, and we will do our best to answer.
Again- apologetically,
Stephan
__________________
www.dbskis.com
.... chiedere non costa nulla, bisogna vedere se il rimborso poi arriva...... :wink: